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	<title>Comments on: Why Porn Now?</title>
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	<link>http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526</link>
	<description>"If you fake the funk, your nose will grow." -- Bootsy Collins</description>
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		<title>By: Jason Hesiak</title>
		<link>http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-40119</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Hesiak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526#comment-40119</guid>
		<description>Steve,

I&#039;ve been following your blog lately, and find it fascinating.  I&#039;m a Christian.  I suspect you are not, but of course I could be wrong.  Just so you know where I&#039;m at.  Anyway, I have thoughts on this post, which no one has yet mentioned in your comments, I don&#039;t think...

When I read the following: &quot;Delany’s is the only writing I know that answers Michel Foucault’s call for an ethics/aesthetics of the body and its pleasures, freed from the dreary dialectics of sexuality and transgression. As such, it provides an alternative as well to the relentless commodification that permeates every corner of our postmodern existence.&quot;
 
...and (keeping in mind that I read your post on Delany, and have been in conversation with ktismatics (John Doyle, you&#039;ve probably conversed with him) on David Lynch and Inland Empire and such things...regarding the difference between a structured unconscious and the consious as the formation of what stands beneath it) my first thought was, &quot;Doesn&#039;t marriage do the same thing, in terms of &#039;freed from the dreary dialectics of sexuality and transgression&#039;&quot;?  My thought here was based on something a good married friend of mine said recently...that, after marriage, sexual activity &quot;wasn&#039;t the same.&quot;  It didn&#039;t provide the same &quot;rush&quot; that had previously come with its feeling &quot;wrong.&quot;

Thanks, man.  Your blog is cool.

Jason</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been following your blog lately, and find it fascinating.  I&#8217;m a Christian.  I suspect you are not, but of course I could be wrong.  Just so you know where I&#8217;m at.  Anyway, I have thoughts on this post, which no one has yet mentioned in your comments, I don&#8217;t think&#8230;</p>
<p>When I read the following: &#8220;Delany’s is the only writing I know that answers Michel Foucault’s call for an ethics/aesthetics of the body and its pleasures, freed from the dreary dialectics of sexuality and transgression. As such, it provides an alternative as well to the relentless commodification that permeates every corner of our postmodern existence.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;and (keeping in mind that I read your post on Delany, and have been in conversation with ktismatics (John Doyle, you&#8217;ve probably conversed with him) on David Lynch and Inland Empire and such things&#8230;regarding the difference between a structured unconscious and the consious as the formation of what stands beneath it) my first thought was, &#8220;Doesn&#8217;t marriage do the same thing, in terms of &#8216;freed from the dreary dialectics of sexuality and transgression&#8217;&#8221;?  My thought here was based on something a good married friend of mine said recently&#8230;that, after marriage, sexual activity &#8220;wasn&#8217;t the same.&#8221;  It didn&#8217;t provide the same &#8220;rush&#8221; that had previously come with its feeling &#8220;wrong.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks, man.  Your blog is cool.</p>
<p>Jason</p>
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		<title>By: rupert</title>
		<link>http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-14276</link>
		<dc:creator>rupert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Nov 2006 14:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526#comment-14276</guid>
		<description>I find this point interesting &quot;ethics/aesthetics of the body and its pleasures, freed from the dreary dialectics of sexuality and transgression&quot; because it seems to me a remark referencing the lost left-overs of the 18th century as Dr Bloch describes as &quot;the systematizing of sexual love&quot;, drawing up through aesthetic theory a &quot;codex of machlosophy&quot;.  Somehow pornography is the residue of this systematization, the by-product of desire because as a media of some kind it has rekindled itself as genre and form, rather than a process of concept and ideas that may be presented as a media.

rups</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find this point interesting &#8220;ethics/aesthetics of the body and its pleasures, freed from the dreary dialectics of sexuality and transgression&#8221; because it seems to me a remark referencing the lost left-overs of the 18th century as Dr Bloch describes as &#8220;the systematizing of sexual love&#8221;, drawing up through aesthetic theory a &#8220;codex of machlosophy&#8221;.  Somehow pornography is the residue of this systematization, the by-product of desire because as a media of some kind it has rekindled itself as genre and form, rather than a process of concept and ideas that may be presented as a media.</p>
<p>rups</p>
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		<title>By: Yusef</title>
		<link>http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-13791</link>
		<dc:creator>Yusef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526#comment-13791</guid>
		<description>“It [Porn today] embodies a logic of indifferent equivalence, even as it holds out the thrilling promise of transgression and transcendence — a promise that, of course, it never actually fulfills.”

“Delany presents “extreme” sex as a form of civility and community, an adornment of life, a necessary part of the art of living well.”

I don&#039;t understand why Delany&#039;s presentation of &quot;extreme&quot; sex as a form of civility and community, (etc.), doesn&#039;t embody a logic of indifferent equivalence... I don&#039;t understand why you offer Delany&#039;s presentation as an alternative to that logic.

I appreciate that Delany&#039;s presentations do not tie sexual allure and excitement to a sense of transgression understood as transgression against rules,laws, parental expectations, the order of the workaday world, (etc.) ... That something is wrong if sexual drive is hinged to these. 

But I think that in order to qualify as a logic of difference- nonequivalence of social relations, Delany needs to develop or retain some sense in which sexuality and having sex IS different and nonequivalent to, say, playing tennis or eating a burrito. 

It&#039;s not that great an accomplishment to normalize sexuality or any other human activity which so far in western history has fallen outside the domain of  what&#039;s been called proper social activity; what&#039;s hard is to do that without molarizing that activity. ( Incorporating the activity by subtracting what is different about it.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“It [Porn today] embodies a logic of indifferent equivalence, even as it holds out the thrilling promise of transgression and transcendence — a promise that, of course, it never actually fulfills.”</p>
<p>“Delany presents “extreme” sex as a form of civility and community, an adornment of life, a necessary part of the art of living well.”</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand why Delany&#8217;s presentation of &#8220;extreme&#8221; sex as a form of civility and community, (etc.), doesn&#8217;t embody a logic of indifferent equivalence&#8230; I don&#8217;t understand why you offer Delany&#8217;s presentation as an alternative to that logic.</p>
<p>I appreciate that Delany&#8217;s presentations do not tie sexual allure and excitement to a sense of transgression understood as transgression against rules,laws, parental expectations, the order of the workaday world, (etc.) &#8230; That something is wrong if sexual drive is hinged to these. </p>
<p>But I think that in order to qualify as a logic of difference- nonequivalence of social relations, Delany needs to develop or retain some sense in which sexuality and having sex IS different and nonequivalent to, say, playing tennis or eating a burrito. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that great an accomplishment to normalize sexuality or any other human activity which so far in western history has fallen outside the domain of  what&#8217;s been called proper social activity; what&#8217;s hard is to do that without molarizing that activity. ( Incorporating the activity by subtracting what is different about it.)</p>
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		<title>By: paul moor</title>
		<link>http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-13299</link>
		<dc:creator>paul moor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526#comment-13299</guid>
		<description>how about porn as a model for artmaking--a kind of return to the amaterurish, the idiosyncratic, to desire, the body, little perverse drives, etc? i m thinking of home-made porn (rather than high-gloss mags and movies) and pitting it against the spectacular filmic installations and &quot;architecturalized&quot; sculpture that museums and biennials seem to favor these days...porn, after all, is an important influence in the homoerotically-charged, homespun sculptures and paintings of folks like richard hawkins and elliot hundley, in the films of william jones, etc..it&#039;s not sexuality pushed to the point of extremity and exhaustion but reeled back in to a personal, weird, even domestic and mundane place that balks at the demands of current discourse...something like the perverse double of a joseph cornell aesthetic...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how about porn as a model for artmaking&#8211;a kind of return to the amaterurish, the idiosyncratic, to desire, the body, little perverse drives, etc? i m thinking of home-made porn (rather than high-gloss mags and movies) and pitting it against the spectacular filmic installations and &#8220;architecturalized&#8221; sculpture that museums and biennials seem to favor these days&#8230;porn, after all, is an important influence in the homoerotically-charged, homespun sculptures and paintings of folks like richard hawkins and elliot hundley, in the films of william jones, etc..it&#8217;s not sexuality pushed to the point of extremity and exhaustion but reeled back in to a personal, weird, even domestic and mundane place that balks at the demands of current discourse&#8230;something like the perverse double of a joseph cornell aesthetic&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: BHARATH MURTHY</title>
		<link>http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-13104</link>
		<dc:creator>BHARATH MURTHY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526#comment-13104</guid>
		<description>i was just about to mention Alan Moore&#039;s Lost Girls when i noticed that Wedge has already done that-- i&#039;ll add that perhaps it might be better to distinguish between photographic/motion picture porn which has an &#039;indexical&#039; relation to reality and the drawn or written porn, wich is what Alan Moore and Samuel Delany are doing. its somethnig else when two people fucking are being shot with a video camera.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i was just about to mention Alan Moore&#8217;s Lost Girls when i noticed that Wedge has already done that&#8211; i&#8217;ll add that perhaps it might be better to distinguish between photographic/motion picture porn which has an &#8216;indexical&#8217; relation to reality and the drawn or written porn, wich is what Alan Moore and Samuel Delany are doing. its somethnig else when two people fucking are being shot with a video camera.</p>
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		<title>By: Blameless Caterpillar</title>
		<link>http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-12973</link>
		<dc:creator>Blameless Caterpillar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526#comment-12973</guid>
		<description>So does that mean I need to finish reading &#039;Tours of the Black Clock&#039;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So does that mean I need to finish reading &#8216;Tours of the Black Clock&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-12908</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526#comment-12908</guid>
		<description>Interesting points by wedge, but I think wedge&#039;s criticisms should be considered alongside Delany&#039;s epilogue to The Mad Man, which I think situates the novel&#039;s body politics (though I&#039;m not sure I&#039;ve come to terms with how it does just that).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting points by wedge, but I think wedge&#8217;s criticisms should be considered alongside Delany&#8217;s epilogue to The Mad Man, which I think situates the novel&#8217;s body politics (though I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;ve come to terms with how it does just that).</p>
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		<title>By: wedge</title>
		<link>http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-12892</link>
		<dc:creator>wedge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526#comment-12892</guid>
		<description>An interesting failed experiment is Alan Moore&#039;s &#039;Lost Girls&#039;. This highly disappointing book attempted to make pornography &#039;beautiful&#039; and &#039;artistically important&#039;; but instead falls back onto pastiche of Victorian erotica. Even it&#039;s most &#039;shocking&#039; passages fall dead as porn. Nice artwork by Melinda gebbie, though.

It is a similar problem to that of Delaney. The adventures of the character&#039;s bodies seem to have no &#039;impact&#039; on their physical being (I disagree that sexuality is &#039;all in our heads&#039;). Celebrating total sexual freedom comes accross as a kind of denial of even the most rudimentary social relations. Perhaps we are so used to the most figuratively visceral images to create the 
desired &#039;effect&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting failed experiment is Alan Moore&#8217;s &#8216;Lost Girls&#8217;. This highly disappointing book attempted to make pornography &#8216;beautiful&#8217; and &#8216;artistically important&#8217;; but instead falls back onto pastiche of Victorian erotica. Even it&#8217;s most &#8216;shocking&#8217; passages fall dead as porn. Nice artwork by Melinda gebbie, though.</p>
<p>It is a similar problem to that of Delaney. The adventures of the character&#8217;s bodies seem to have no &#8216;impact&#8217; on their physical being (I disagree that sexuality is &#8216;all in our heads&#8217;). Celebrating total sexual freedom comes accross as a kind of denial of even the most rudimentary social relations. Perhaps we are so used to the most figuratively visceral images to create the<br />
desired &#8216;effect&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-12569</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526#comment-12569</guid>
		<description>Kool Keith&#039;s album Sex Style might be a heterosexual equivalent of Delany&#039;s efforts in The Mad Man and Phallos.  

Delany goes beyond the limits of pornography (doesn&#039;t he call these works &quot;anti-pornography&quot;?) in the &quot;art of living&quot; sense mentioned above and through the complementary support of any sort of healthy desire (e.g. Marr&#039;s defense of Stephen Dobolowski&#039;s sexuality, a very moving support of a friend).  

I&#039;m interested in Delany&#039;s use of the nightmarish beast in both The Mad Man and Phallos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kool Keith&#8217;s album Sex Style might be a heterosexual equivalent of Delany&#8217;s efforts in The Mad Man and Phallos.  </p>
<p>Delany goes beyond the limits of pornography (doesn&#8217;t he call these works &#8220;anti-pornography&#8221;?) in the &#8220;art of living&#8221; sense mentioned above and through the complementary support of any sort of healthy desire (e.g. Marr&#8217;s defense of Stephen Dobolowski&#8217;s sexuality, a very moving support of a friend).  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m interested in Delany&#8217;s use of the nightmarish beast in both The Mad Man and Phallos.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-12513</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shaviro.com/Blog/?p=526#comment-12513</guid>
		<description>Pornography is traded as a commodity within the category of affect, like the trade in resentment and sentimentality. But it is its use value as opposed to exchange value that attracts suspicion and interest. This is where it is exceptional and where it is amenable to Lacanian analysis. It is useful as an aid to masturbation and sexual activity generally, but only at a second remove. In the first instance it directly produces the Imaginary. In practice, resentment and sentimentality embody relationships of social solidarity, but sexual imagining as Lacan reminds us is completely unsupportive of relationships and therefore stands outside the Marxian concept of productivity. Use value may be irrelevant to a discussion of the social logic of pornography, but I think this is where it acquires its cache.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pornography is traded as a commodity within the category of affect, like the trade in resentment and sentimentality. But it is its use value as opposed to exchange value that attracts suspicion and interest. This is where it is exceptional and where it is amenable to Lacanian analysis. It is useful as an aid to masturbation and sexual activity generally, but only at a second remove. In the first instance it directly produces the Imaginary. In practice, resentment and sentimentality embody relationships of social solidarity, but sexual imagining as Lacan reminds us is completely unsupportive of relationships and therefore stands outside the Marxian concept of productivity. Use value may be irrelevant to a discussion of the social logic of pornography, but I think this is where it acquires its cache.</p>
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